Andy Clark
Radio Netherlands
Friday, May 19, 2006
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Scene from the controversial film Submission that Hirsi made with Theo van Gogh |
Was Ayaan Hirsi Ali hounded out of the Netherlands?
The one time controversial superstar of Dutch politics, who achieved internationally acclaim for her campaigning against conservative Islam, quit parliament this week after a political storm saw her being told she was to be stripped of her Dutch nationality.
Dutch immigration minister Rita Verdonk said she had no choice but to take away Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s passport after a TV documentary revealed the Somali born MP had lied about her name and age when she claimed asylum.
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The revelations were after all nothing new – Ms Hirsi Ali had been open in the past that she lied about her story to get into the Netherlands.
Even so the pressure proved too much as it came on top of years of living under police protection due to death threats from Islamic extremists.
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Outspoken – Ayaan Hirsi Ali |
These are the bare outlines of a momentous week for Dutch politics and a momentous week for a campaigning politician who risked her life for her cause.
Amsterdam Forum focused on the Ayaan Hirsi Ali saga this week and asked, was she forced out unfairly? And what of her legacy in the Netherlands?
The panellists:
Naema Tahir Human rights lawyer, publicist and novelist, who like Hirsi Ali has focuses on Muslim women’s rights.
Gijs van de Westelaken, the producer of the film submission, the film made by the late Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
Hikmat Mahawat Khan the chairman of the Contact Group for Islam – an umbrella organization for Muslim groups in the Netherlands.
Key quotes:
Naema Tahir asked if Ms Hirsi Ali had been treated unfairly:
“I think she has been treated unfairly, of course no-one is above the law, no-one is above ethical morality – not even an MP, so it’s okay to conduct an investigation, but I think it should have been conducted before, if minister Verdonk wanted to do this. But the fact that it took a mere 48 hours [to strip her of her passport], it was such a rapid procedure that there was no element of humanity was taken into consideration.”
Gijs van de Westelaken asked if Hirsi Ali has been hounded out:
“Yes in a way – not only through the action of Verdonk but also through what has happened in the last year and a half following the murder of Theo van Gogh – she has been treated in a bizarre way and this is the last and final bizarre act against her.”
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Murdered film director Theo van Gogh |
“I sympathise with her on a human level, but I disagree with a lot of people who adore her in a way that blocks a clear logical discussion. I don’t believe she is hounded away from Holland… I am shocked to see him simply we are discussing this issue, I have a bigger problem with her integrity than just with her nationality.”
Gijs van de Westelaken on how Hirsi was seen in the Netherlands:
“There really is a majority feeling of finally, well, let’s get rid of these kind of people, it’s not only Ayaan it has to do with getting rid of all these people who make life difficult. These people ask uneasy questions, they debate in a strong and sharp sense and we don’t like that – we want to be home at six o’clock and have dinner and watch football.”
“We have given ourselves the idea that we are this fantastic, tolerant multicultural society, but we are not. We are probably the most segregated country in Europe and not to say the word racist – I must say.”
Hikmat Mahawat Khan – on adoration of Hirsi Ali:
“I have seen a discussion in this country when people were attacking the prophet and when Muslims were reacting they said you are overreacting because you adore the prophet – I see a similar phenomenon now that whenever anyone tries to touch Hirsi Ali now, on whatever issue, you see a lot of people adore her and these are people with powerful media attention. They are giving they same kind of reaction as the Muslims did when people attacked their prophet – so in this country you cannot have a real logical discussion.”
Naema Tahir on attitudes towards Hirsi Ali:
“The attitude towards her all through her time in parliament was that was too good to be true, that kind of attitude. She’s a very elite person, she’s from a very educated family, she’s very educated herself and this person comes to the Netherlands and in a very short time she makes a dynamic career. In ten years she raises herself from a factory worker to a parliamentarian and one of the most famous in The Netherlands and now even at world level very famous.”
“She didn’t give the normal profile of an immigrant and I think the point has been raised you cannot stick your head above the poppy field – the Dutch society is a tolerant society but only if you keep your head under the poppy field – if you are too outspoken, if you are dissident you ruffle the feathers and upset the people in power.”
Hikmat Mahawat Khan – Hirsi Ali wasn’t interested in issues:
“I raised several issues and brought them to her attention to tackle right here in Holland and Ayaan Hirsi Ali did not want to touch them. For example, we have a mosque here in Amsterdam which is propagating hatred against Israel, hatred against Dutch society, everything, I have video tapes and I gave them to Ayaan Hirsi Ali and I asked her to demand measures against the mosque and nothing happened because she was too busy with international politics. She has her internationally ambition and I was her all the best with that, but I think it is a myth that she is the only one who could keep the debate going on.”
Gijs van de Westelaken on those who say Ayaan Hirsi Ali was responsible for the murder of Theo van Gogh (van Gogh filmed her script for the movie Submission a highly controversial short film about the mistreatment of Muslim women – the film argued the Koran sanctioned such abuse. Theo van Gogh was murdered by a Jihadi terrorist):
“Absolutely not, this would imply Theo was a stupid man who didn’t realize what he was doing and he realized that very well. To clarify one thing, most people think Theo was murdered because of Submission; well it’s not the only thing. It played a big role but an even bigger role, and it became clear during the trial against his murderer, were his writings against the prophet. The letter that Mohammed Bouyeri, the murderer, left knifed to his body was begun months earlier before Submission.”
Your reactions on the new Ayaan Hirsi Ali is to quit The Netherlands:
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Mosque in Amsterdam |
Abdi Ahmed Siyad, Mogadishu -Somalia: “I’m glad to hear that Ms Hirsi Ali is losing her Dutch nationality, because of her lies, and also her exaggeration against Islam. And I hope Ayaan will be a good example for every refugee who tries to mislead the country which gave them asylum.”
Tony Pope, Chicago, USA: “Oh my friends from The Netherlands – I say this out of great love for your country and great concern for the future: do not send Ms. Ali away – she is a testament to all that is great about Holland and the Dutch. She is the ideal immigrant. I admire Ms. Verdonk, but this time, I think she has really gone too far.”
Ryan Niven, Canada: “This woman is absolutely an opportunist who knew how to get fame and attention by attacking Islam at a time when Bush is the master of universe, sadly though eh, there is another girl in Canada called Manji Ershad, a lesbian who wishes to write the Koran based on her own mentality. Dark ages are not ahead; we actually live in the dark ages already. Why do these people think that Islam is worse than the other religions, they are all the same and all dangerous in the hands of the hard core.”
Jasmin, Amritsar, India: “Retrospectively the life of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, shows an ambitious woman in a hurry to be at the top. Her lies to obtain Dutch passport, definitely undermine her credibility though she clarified them later to clear her conscience. But as it is her past caught with her future. It shows that the edifices based on lies always crumble, however tough they may seem. As for her stance on Islam, her combative style has made the Islamists defensive and provoked them to kill Theo van Gogh. The issues of religion are ultra sensitive and need delicate and mature handling her film [Submission] and flamboyant style has made the relations between the Dutch and Muslims sour and difficult to repair. However good her intentions might have been her efforts have boomeranged on her. Her meteoric rise has done her and Dutch a great harm.”
Jeff Risner, USA: “Yes she was hounded out and fascism has won once again in Holland. Just like 1940 many Dutch look to the aggressors and believe that if we just say nothing and ignore the reality of the world we will be fine. Why worry about others? We have our lives to live. The Dutch People lost this one and lost it just a surely as when the Nazis panzer divisions cut though the Low Countries like a hot knife through warm butter. Is their no man or woman of conscience left?”
Brooks Hurd, US: “Ayaan Hirsi Ali brought important issues to the forefront. These issues are transcending Dutch politics. I feel that her style is much less important than her message. I firmly believe that if more people like Hirsi Ali do not raise these issues in a way that they can be debated by Muslims and non-Muslims that then the only Muslim voices that we will hear are the sounds of fanatical Islam’s gunfire and bombs. This debate is far too important to allow terrorists to silence it.”
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Muslim veils a constant source of tension and misunderstanding |
Silvio, Italy: “I think that the combative style of Hirsi Ali and the fact that she lied are two separate problems. The ideas of Hirsi Ali are legitimate because there is freedom of speech. I personally believe that an idea should be supported primarily with arguments. A flamboyant and combative style is secondary: it is useful to gain attention but it is also dangerous. About the possibility to strip her Dutch nationality, I think that it must be done. Freedom of speech is essential as well as equality of treatment.
I have read that the immigration policy of Minister Verdonk is very strict with immigrants. Therefore Hirsi Ali should not be an exception. She was a member of the Parliament and she has to pay for her lies. The first and right reaction is, in my opinion, to say sorry, not to fly to America keeping her chin up.”
Bill Crompton, Liverpool, but I’ve lived in Amsterdam for 30 years: “One thing people forget when discussing the ‘Ayaan’ situation is that the people the Netherlands used to have one of the most enlightened attitudes towards refugees in the world. Unfortunately, their generosity and hospitality was so frequently abused they were forced to become almost draconian in their approach to the flow. The main consequence is that many genuine refugees are refused admission to the country, and those who are are often held in prison-like facilities. How extreme this can become was recently revealed when a fire at one of those facilities led to the deaths of a number of innocent refugees.”
“This draconian attitude was engendered by a cynicism towards all refugees, because of the abuse of the system by a small group of opportunists. However you look at the situation, and however often she ‘confesses’, Ayaan and those like her were directly responsible for the present situation! When entering the country, Ayaan showed herself to be a selfish opportunist, and nothing in her subsequent political career has demonstrated to me that she in any way changed. From the left-wing Wiardi Beckman Foundation to the right wing VVD, and now the extreme right wing AEI, Ayaan has always sold herself to the highest bidder. There is a word to describe people who sell themselves as Ayaan has done, and that word is not ‘vluchteling’ [refugee].”
Brian Merritt, Canada: “The American Enterprise Institute is an extremely influential, pro-business right-wing think tank that promotes the advancement of free enterprise capitalism, and succeeds in placing its people in influential governmental positions. It appears that Ms. Ali has found a place where fellow alumni, such as Dick Cheney and Kenneth Lay, are prone to bend the truth to serve their needs. On that basis, she certainly qualifies to become an addition to this august group of ‘strategic’ thinkers.”
Roland, Spain: “God All Mighty will protect Ayaan Ali the rest of her life and her struggle and vision will not die nobody will stop her.”
Charles L. Massaquoi, Monrovia, Liberia – I am currently residing in Sweden:” I am sorry for Hirsi Ali, having said all that I believe politicians should set a good example. Telling a lie is a criminal offence no matter what we must tell the whole truth. I am a trained journalist I will never publish a lie in my magazine.”
Jeff Beal, USA: “It is sad to see that the spirit of appeasement is still alive and well in the Netherlands and Europe, and that the new Nazis are also alive and well. It seems some people never learn anything. It’s good to see that the USA is still the land of the ‘land of the free and the home of the brave.’ Ms. Ali you are welcome here. Let be the first to welcome you to America and buy you dinner.”
Cathy Faulkner, Australia: “She has indeed been hounded from Holland. I think the Netherlands is on it’s way to being a very backward country with all the kowtowing to Muslims that’s going on there. So sad. No wonder our friends in Holland would love to live in Australia.”
Hesham Sabry, Canada: “I think that anyone, whether they are liars, criminals, hypocrites, social climbers, self-promoters or even murderers, should be given the highest respect in a nation like Holland as long as they are ‘fierce critics of Islam.’ It is wise that those Dutch MPs who support Ali understand that criticizing Islam is much more important and significant than integrity, honesty, and authenticity. The world needs more of their kind. Shame on Holland for not elevating Hirsi Ali to a ministerial position, after all she has the best credentials ever possible, she is a fierce critic of Islam, in the ‘tolerant, unprejudiced’ nation of Holland, whose innocence wasn’t lost when Pim Fortuyn was assassinated because you only lose your innocence if it is a Muslim who committed the act. That’s The Netherlands, and what a wonderful land!!”
Michael Mullock, Philadelphia, USA: “The controversial Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali is leaving the Netherlands and may be stripped of her Dutch nationality and coming to America. Welcome Home!”
Hulscher Maurits, Holland: “I’m Dutch but grew up and am still living in Belgium, following Miss Ali’s career and being happy that of all European countries she had the luck to start a new life in Holland. The country of outspoken thoughts. Well, that’s what I thought but, please, Ms Ali never stop saying what you think, real democracy also means that people listen, even if they don’t like what they hear!!”
Paramore, UK: “I would be ashamed to be Dutch today. Everyone knows that if all the rules on the statute book were enforced the immigrant population of Europe would be halved and 99% pf the preachers of hate would be gone. This admirable woman is the Cassandra who told you the truth that the Dutch élites don’t want to hear. “
Ali Jama Mohamed, UK: “They use you, then they kick your ass when they reach they target. I am very glad to see your humiliation.”
Rodolfo C. Villarreal, The United States: “It surprises me that this could happen to some one in the Netherlands. I would expect this kind of intolerance in the United States, but not Holland.”
Sabah Salih, USA:”I think Holland decided to do the cowardly thing: caving in to Muslim
fascism rather than supporting a woman who has bravely taken a stand against not just the oppression of Muslim women but also against those Muslim men who exploit the country’s democratic culture to undermine its very democracy. Such men do not belong to Holland because such men are committed to an ideology that forbids people to think for themselves and promotes a culture of hate and irrationality. By taking away Ms. Hisri’s citizenship, Holland has taken the first step in becoming a willing participant
in the destruction of its civil society.”
Wabari, Somali origin now residing USA: “I was so happy to see this her fall and she deserve this way, because she was going 100 miles and hours thus she needed to slow down. Finally the Dutch showed her the door. Thanks to Ms Verdonk for being just and fair.”
Abdullahi Hassan, Somalia: “As far as I am concerned Ayaan Hirsi Ali is not a liar. Maybe Gaal( infidel), maybe different ideologically or what have you! I have known Ayaan many years personally and she is not the type of the person who would lie in order to get ahead in life. on the contrary she will work very hard to get what she wants to achieve, like she did in Netherlands.”
H. Mesfin, Ethiopia: “How foolish of the Dutch government to not only force Ms Hirsi to resign as an MP but strip her Dutch citizenship. After all this is an extraordinary woman who mastered their language, studied in their country and became an MP all under a period of 11years. A brave woman, who spoke of reality for Muslim women and what they are facing even in the so -called democratic countries often risking her life. There are two explanations here, one is a knee jerk reaction to Muslim extremisim and what they might do to the Netherlands because of her views; given what we have seen in Denmark and worldwide over the cartoon incident.”
“The second being, a beautiful black immigrant, a woman, from some forgotten part of the world, Somalia, to display such level of intelligence and outspoken views is just too much to handle not for her enemies but for her colleagues hence they started digging dirt- and their findings? She killed someone? No. She took bribe? no, she stole? no but she sweetened her Asylum case. Wow! as this is something Ms Hirisi admitted all along. Your Lose not hers as she will shine and is destined for great things wherever she goes. Good Luck Ayaan.”
Alexander Deventer, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada : “Her views may be controversial but if the Netherlands stripped away the passport and citizenship of every immigrant that falsified their application then Schiphol would have to add several new runways. I spend much time in Washington and would love to meet with this courageous woman. I am non-religious and very tolerant but I find myself often in conflict with Muslims who immigrate to the Western world yet only come here for purely economic gain. They have complete contempt for almost everything about equality and liberty and are often the victims of their own intolerance. Ottawa has a very large Somali community but the only members of it that seem to be making much of an attempt to integrate with the community at large are the young Somali women. I am a high school teacher and find the young Somali men often in trouble since they cannot accept women either as equals or superiors.”
Source: Radio Netherlands, May 19, 2006
